Thursday, November 17, 2011

Boother36 and the Hartland Poker Tour - Needs a Little Hand Help!

Can the NPP poker brain trust let Boother36 know what they would have done in this spot?

"I know firsthand that NPP players are some of the best around. So I am asking for some help with analyzing a hand. Here is the set up:

This is the first hand of a $360 qualifier for the Hartland Poker Tour. The top 20% win a buy-in to the Main Event ($1,650). The starting stacks are at $10,000.

The blinds are $100/$100. The button is in seat 1, yours truly is UTG, Villain #1 is in seat 7 and Villain #2 is the BB.

I get my cards and look down 8-8. I bump it to $400. V#1 calls and V#2 calls as well.

Flop comes A-10-A. It checks around.

The turn is an 8. V#2 checks, and I bet $500, V#1 calls and so does V#2.

River is a 6. V#1 checks, I make it $2,200, V#1 thinks about it and calls, V#2 thinks even longer and makes it $7,000. Still thinking I have the bet hand, I push all in. V#1 calls and V#2 insta-calls.

We roll them over, V#1 has A-J (and is very proud of it….pointing at it vigorously like he has something really special!!), V#2 shows A-10. And just like that, I am out on the first hand!! I have never done that before…but I guess there is a first time for everything!!!

So here is my thought process…..I put both of them on an Ace each…guessing that they were novices/amateurs, I figured them to be all excited about a having a set of A’s and not likely to fold. While I was right with my read, I guess I didn’t think far enough along that one of them would actually have their hole cards matched the board….so I guess I under estimated my opponents!!

I am looking for some feedback and thoughts by some of the other NPP players. What would you have done?? Could you have laid down a hand that had a better than 98% chance of winning on the first hand of a “big” tourney?!?!?

Any analysis would be appreciated. And I expect a few smart-ass comments as well!!
BTW – this is a very similar hand to one in the 2005 WSOP Main Event when Sammy Farha was up against some famous actress’s husband and the flop came A-10-A too. The “famous by association” dude had 10-10 and Sammy had the A-10….that duesch lost to Sammy and went out on the first hand too!!"



Brian said...

That's a sick beat...but I'll take a stab at this.

- Can't argue with your PFR raise here, although merely limping and going set-mining isn't a bad play, either.

- So if my calculation is correct, you bet out $500 into $1300 pot on the turn, which is not a huge amount. You would be correct in thinking that your hand is probably best, but the other 2 players both just flatting you here is interesting.

Unfortunately, this is the first hand, so you most likely have no idea as to what type of players they are.

- Now, you're in a tough spot here, but this is where you made your mistake. The fact that V#1 just called your sizable bet here is good news, but V#2 making a raise that large on the first hand should have sent sirens off in the head, if they weren't starting up already.

It's also a great bet, because the guy holding the nuts knows that if you have any kind of a hand (trips, smaller boat) that you are most likely calling...and rarely folding a big hand here.

But this is a key point to remember, as well: This is the first hand of the tournament - most players like to play relatively small pots the first couple of hands. Why would a player put his tournament on the line if he didn't have a monster? I would agree that A-K or A-Q isn't laying this hand down after your river bet, but he's most likely not shoving, either.

That being said, it's a ridiculously tough laydown for you, but with 2 aces on the board, it's a bit easier than, say, if the board was Q-10-Q, because who would put someone on Q-10 (just to keep the hands symmetrical for my argument).

Being on the wrong end of a cooler sucks, that's for sure!

LittleRedElf said...

I'm with Brian here. Yes, it's a bad beat, but you could have gotten away from it without much damage. The early checks on the flop and then calls on the turn are suspect. The big raise by V#2 on the river would tell me that I'm probably beat. There are 5 hands that can beat you: AA, A10, A8, A6 and 1010 (and a 6th possible hand: 97 suited if the 6,8,10 are of the same suit). I'd fold to the big raise and lick my chops while playing the next hand. You cannot win the tourney in the first hand but you can surely lose.

Nik Faldo said...

What Brian said!

I think I bet $500 to $700 on the flop to see if there is a (QT), (JT),(KQ) or (AX) out there. A call or callers would have alerted me that I could be against any of these.

Once the [8] hits the turn, I think I am felted. If they have (AT) then they benefited from the usual benefit of being at a table with Faldo in the first place.

Two questions Boother36:

1) What are you doing taking Faldo's poker chair and using it at the HPT tourney?

2) And can you explain why you are so bad at reading players that you could not know what he had??? After all, you played a 2/3's of a hand with the guy. It should have been obvious to anyone what he had and how he plays after that long.

Anonymous said...

Ur problem in my opinion Boother is that you had the schmuck w/ the set thinking he was the cats ass and staying in the hand. If you get him out early you get a better read on the nut. And probably play it different heads up. Just my opinion. And I would have played the A 10 exactly the same. Why chase out anyone after that flop? the chances of catching quads is slim.

I would have picked up some hookers after that hand. But thats just me.


Beerhog said...

You simpletons!

I would just raise to the max and make them fold out of fear of me.

Of course I can do that being Beerhog with stellar poker skills.

For the rest of you I can see how want to analyze and chat and talk and talk like a school girl about all the permutations of this hand.

It's amusing to see how y'all analyze this hand and congratulate each other. It's charming how much love and respect you have for each other's feelings.

After all of you finish turning in your job application at Penn State you might want to consider learning how to PLAY POKER LIKE A MAN!

Anonymous said...

I feel you overplayed the hand and didn't give your opponents enough credit.This is kind of similar to having a flush on a paired board and putting your opponents on trips. It if fine to do that, but what isn't fine is calling or making a shove because you don't give two unknown players credit for being able to fold or bet less then a boat in a 3 way pot on a paired board. It's just bad poker to presume things like this early in a tourney vs unknown players. With the board you gave there is a few more points I'd like to make. First of A/10 is in range of a lot of players. Considering the raising that took place pre I would normally assign ranges of A/10 to A/Q with the possibility of A/K and any PP below queens vs unknown players. Now after assigning that range the only way to make it really hard to get away from this hand is if you have pocket 10's. Then I'm going to pay an unknown off every time and will agree it is a cooler. Personally with the board I would have wanted nothing to do with it from the flop. However, on the the turn I would call or make some small bets and fold to raises. Another point I'd like to make that has already been made, WTF are you raising 8's pre early in a tourney? I think that is a -ev play all day long. The only value in mid/small pp's early in a tourney is seeing the flop cheap and when that 1 in 6 hits hopefully getting max value vs tptk. Just mytwo cents.


k9 is a dog said...

boat is a good hand....but in a tournament you never win in the first round much less the first hand...unless you had the nuts....i wouldn't risk the tournament without the best hand...did you ever think someone had 10 10 that beats you too....or aa would crushed yahoo but not two. without reading comments i see lre said the same thing...rather whine like a wolverine than go out like a spartan.....buckeye nation only now thanking we aren't lions.